tavis: good evening from los angeles. i am tavon smiley. -- tavis smiley. this is a look at the world of course racing and stars. the show was written and treated by david milch. to have join us for a look at the new series. >> every community has a vermont -- martin luther king boulevard. it is paid cornerstone we all know. it is not a street or boulevard. it is one that gets together with your community to meet every day better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

films michael mann's include "all day," and "the aviator for a chrome hbo's "locuck." here's a look.

>> welcome home, mr. bernstein. with peopleou have been in my apartment, you better get them out. >> i only do this for fun now. >> good for you, kid. so did die. david milch and michael mann, is that like crockett and tubbs? [laughter] >> it is a combination that we have talked about for a long time. tavis: how did you come

together on this particular project? >> david asked me if i wanted to direct the pilot. i read it and i did not necessarily want to direct the pilot, but the writing was so addictive and so challenging. in its way of the immersing us, parachuting is ready to character. it is a fascinating world. i really got hooked by the screenplay. tavis: i am curious that have your mind works. i know how much the written word means to you. when you say addictive and challenging, that almost sounds boxing moronic. i know you meant something by that. -- sounds oxymoronic.

i know you meant something by that. >> when i start reading the screenplay, i imagine right away dustin hoffman. i like the casting. and then you put it down and you leave it there for a week and you start picking it up again and you can i get enough of it. you keep coming back to it for four weeks or five weeks. the challenge of the whole narrative format of the show, something that guy was very interested in and independently, immersed in the audience very intensely as. it is to be so deeply swept away by it. one of the difficulties of that is that the immersive kind is a real insertion. those kinds of insertions to not come with a lot of see spot run

type of set up with the explanation ahead of time. it usually comes with the dropping somebody in a fast- moving streams, if you can imagine that. and you're suddenly in it appeared it is a real world that is very detailed. it is not to dumbed down. that is what i found challenging about it. in many cases in the show, the attitude of the actor indicated what was happening, not by the words on the page. wariness, why is he looking over his shoulder? why is his worst secret? what is the back story about this particular horse whose father was murdered? it is a very special animal. we will find out.

it is communicated more from a coherent attitude by airily great actor. tavis: i have some questions about the horses. but let me start with the humans. you mentioned dustin hoffman and nick nolte. dustin hoffman has been on this show many times. nick nolte i have never met, but they're both a list of actors. why are dustin hoffman and nick nolte doing television? >> this will sound like a commercial. because this is not really television. tavis: it is hbo. it is not television. [laughter] that did some like a commercial. go ahead. >> they are doing some of the most outstanding dramas around. and they have a very unusual business model where the content is unconventional. that is what they seek.

it is edgy. along with that, from hbo, comes tremendous commercial success. the combination of both of those means that they can afford productions like this and they are akin to galleries. that is how they view what they do. it is an extraordinary time to be doing this kind of work. and a lot of other work that cable television has to be terrific on. "homeland," "breaking bad," we are in a time where people may look back at it and say that it is the golden age of cable television. >tavis: do you have to have a cast of this all start? it is not just the two of them. it is a huge cast. did you have to have a cast like that to make it work? why was that choice made to have

so many a-lister's? >> dustin and i had wanted to work together since the 1970's. when i read the script, i immediately thought i wanted to cast dustin. mcnall and try to work together -- nick nolte and i try to work together. tavis: did you have to convince them? >> we had to have a long conversation with dustin. was this going to be like seven- day shoots and a hydrant going off? the answer was no. there would be preparation. screenplay's would be ready. we would be working in exactly the way thaas if we were shootia movie. and the same kind of depth of exploring character. dustin is a specific and care -- specific an

character. is attentive to details. nick nolte is raw and authentic artistically. john ortiz and i worked together three times. dennis farina is my old pal. i could not imagine a combination of dennis with dustin. it was beauforperfect. and then on the opposite pole is this quartet of degeneres. -- of degenerates. then kevin dunn is this amazingly authentic character actor. >> i am trying to think who it

was, another great director on this show at one time said to me that when he started directing, he asked steven spielberg for some advice. and steven spielberg given to pieces of advice. i forget the second. the first one was to not work with animals. how difficult is it to work with animals? do these animals have personalities? are they characters in this series as well? tell me about the forces. it is about horses. >> they are very much characters. all the horses you see in the pilot have their own stories. these forces will eventually go across the spread of -- these courses will initially go across the spread of nine episodes. it is all heading towards -- what we have seen is the first

of a nine-hour movie. the owners of the horses will wind up going head-to-head, meaning walter smith and the stand. i realize that forces had -- i realized that horses had personalities when i had one. before that, as a city boy, i used to go out to be stable once a year. i had no idea about horses. but horses have really distinct personalities and their magical in many ways -- and they are magical in many ways. we are extremely careful with the forces. we have set procedures that are very rigid. the horse can run about a quarter mile -- when we do a race -- that cars can run a quarter of a mile and has to rest 20 minutes. then he can run another quarter

of a mile and rest for 20 minutes. then he runs another quarter and that is it for the day. tavis: it is not in my contract, mr. mann. [laughter] >> for us to have eight courses in a race, we need at least 30 two horses -- 32 coursecourses. tavis: -- 32 horses. tavis: if i were to ask you what the takeaway was for the viewer, what is it? what is it you want us to wrestle with? what is the take away? >> a to have emerged from prison, having done a crime he

did not commit, is motivated with the intentions for people who put him there. michael smyth is played by michael gambit. in seeking vengeance, he will get involved in buying and bringing casino gambling. all along the way, he stars to connect with his course. that is the red irish force. and then the unexpected occurs. each of these storage racks all vector towards a culminating episode 8-9. there will be a competition between the exercise your role and the jockeying -- the

exercise girl and the jockey. degenerates will become horse owners. they will still be living in the draghi hotel in koreatown called the oasis. -- in this sweaty hotel in koreatown called the oasis. everything moves towards the realization of the deeper conflicts with in every single one of our characters. it is almost as if everyone is fighting some aspect of their own inner nature. luck means to me the yearning

for transcendence, the yearning for some kind of change. the degenerate gambler will become who i really used to be if i win. marcus, who would like not to win because he is very uncomfortable -- an episode to. so that common yearning for change, change in one's life, that each one of us seeks -- that is the universality that is in this show. tavis: i have been reading a number of critics about the series. some appear to get it. some appear not to. but the one thing they agree on is that you cannot figure this out in the first couple of episodes. it will take watching a few of these to get a sense for where this is headed. i assume, as a producer, you are

ok with that. being on hbo gives you time to develop that. but we live in the world now where people the attention span is really sure. god have to watch seven eight or nine episodes to get the point you have made now, that you are trying to get us to wrestle with the amenity of these characters and this -- with the humanity of these characters and this yearning, will people stick with it? >> first of all, audiences are smarter than they know they are and we rely on them. we count on that. we rely on that. they will not understand some of the details of some of it, but they get it that jerry had a very smart idea in this one race, betting on one horse. they will understand that. i think they will be easy with not worrying about some esoterica of detail that goes by as long as they get the general

drift. by the time we're into episode two, a lot of these explanations becomes clear. then you can flow through the pattern. tavis: can you get the general drift of a series like this without understanding horseracing? >> absolutely. i do not understand horseracing. [laughter] it is action in advantage. you're kind of accomplishing something you do not know and you are at your bus. that is true for an actor, for director, those who are responsible for a narrative. the converse is also true. they were never interested in doing "my friend feluccflicka." if we are doing a show about brain surgery, there would be

real complexity. we tried to organize it so that, if you just drift away with it, you will get the general sense of it appeared in the second and third episode, i think that everybody will be to end up. tavis: you grew up in chicago. were these the dreams you had as a kid in chicago? >> i had probably without knowing it. i was always drawn to certain kinds of architecture. i was listening to loud music and driving through the bridges in the city and excited by that. by the time i left -- by the time i was 21, i knew what i wanted to do and that was to direct films. but prior to that, no, i had no idea. i had no responsibility at all. i was not attracted to cameras. i was not attracted to cinema. tavis: what was the way in for

you? >> at the university of wisconsin, i started seeing some films in particular. "dr. strange love" was a revelation. it was 10:30 p.m. at night and i was walking and it was 10 degrees below zero. it struck me, the sky apart, and able to lightning came down, figuratively, and said you will do this. you will make films. and i have been searching. i was fairly well stressed out because i did not know what i wanted to do. tavis: so much has changed in the years that you have been

doing this. i was on an airplane the day watching people watch films on their hand-held devices. the screens on which we watched these things had gotten and will continue to get smaller. as a filmmaker, given that screen sizes are smaller, does that impact in any way you shoot the work that you do? >> no. tavis: hbo go is offering things like this on small screens. >> that is a good question. you really do scale the compositions and had you will present difficult in a flesh and blood world to a certain format that you have in your mind. for me, it is still the cinema screen. 80-inch plasmas are starting to become ubiquitous. the fairly decent 5.1 sound system and a big screen is not

that out of reach. that is why i take -- with the edges kind of moving into your peripheral vision a little bit comic you put yourself there, that is what i am composing for. tavis: when i say "miami vice," these years later, you think what? >> when i think back, it is some of the standing abbas as we did in the first year-and-a-half to two years. -- it is some of the fantastic things we did in the first year and half to two years. we kind of did contragate the saturday before the suspect was

shot down. they had smuggler's blues. people still stop and ask me, what about the episode with the guy who was bruce mcgill, for some reason, they still remember this all these years later. and how exciting it was to do it for all of us who work on the show 16 hours to 17 hours a day. as good as they looked, it was how bad everybody looked behind the scenes. [laughter] me included. we were not fashion statements. tavis: on this new series, you are the producer. >> i directed the pilot. tavis: will you do some directing here and there? >> by may. first, i directed the pilot. then i -- i may.

first, i directed the pilot. then i stepped into the executive producer position. tavis: in terms of the feature films, what is on the docket for michael mann? >> i just got back from doing research on stage writing in indonesia. and then developing something .hat takes place in 1415 i love medieval subject matter. tavis: i have never done one though. >> i have done a "blast of the mohicans." -- "the last of the mohicans." but i have been wanting to do something medieval. tavis: he did not quite connect. we are back now for "luck." this will work?

>> i hope so. david is a tough guy. he has been around for a lot of years. he is a great writer. i will tell you what. david and an unusual friend and sometime co-writer and i sit around and work on the stories. then david takes them away. but some of those conversations, which we record and transcribe, are hilarious. so if, for some reason, "luck" does not work, we have another project. [laughter] tavis: they have advertised a this everywhere. that is another thing good about being on hbo. the advertising. good luck on the new series. >> thank you. >> good to had tavis: you. that is our show for tonight.

>> sometimes i wonder if i am still an asset. >> as, you are the architect. take your time. you have the right to find your own stride. >> short of temper. i do not hold my thoughts as well. i had the greek get me this tape recorder. >> yeah, huh? >> when is the matter? >> no. >> it is a memory aid. after i do three years, you suspect me. i take a fall predicting how many people. i have a tape recorder. >> for more information on today's show, visit travis' smiley at pbs.org. tavis: join me next time for a

conversation with condoleezza rice. that is next time. we will see you then. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it is the cornerstone we all know. it is not just a street or boulevard, but a place for wal- mart stands together with your community. make every day better. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. you. thank you.